I watched this once back in 2008, but couldn’t remember it. I watched it again 15 years later.
Are we sure that Francis Ford Coppola directed this? Because this looks like a film Bryan Singer directed. What was the purpose of that scene with naked Rob Lowe getting out of the shower?
Could Ponyboy and Johnny have become a gay couple had Johnny lived? I like the scene with Ponyboy resting his head on Johnny’s shoulder. Then they were both reading Gone With the Wind together. Watching the sunrise/sunset together.
But, apparently the author of the book said, “None of my characters are gay!”
by Anonymous | reply 75 | February 23, 2023 1:56 PM |
It was a big deal in the early 80s.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | February 19, 2023 7:14 AM |
It was a movie. It took up time. It cost money to see.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | February 19, 2023 7:24 AM |
It's like a restaurant menu.
Just look at all that tender chicken & seafood.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | February 19, 2023 8:36 AM |
This was all the reason it needed.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 4 | February 19, 2023 8:46 AM |
Filmmakers sometimes make children's films to get a box office success. Kids see movies more than once. Adults don't.
Coppola was trying to do this with his YA movies Rumblefish and The Outsiders.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | February 19, 2023 9:18 AM |
I love this movie. Stay gold.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | February 19, 2023 9:38 AM |
The book felt very homo-romantic to me when I read it aged 14 or so.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | February 19, 2023 9:44 AM |
Never read the book but love the movie. I prefer the theatrical cut over the director’s cut
by Anonymous | reply 10 | February 19, 2023 9:52 AM |
I prefer the director's cut, myself. The theatrical cut minimizes some characters who had been more prominent in the story, notably Ponyboy's brothers played by Rob Lowe and Patrick Swayze. This has the effect of making it The Matt Dillon Show. He was the biggest name of these young stars at the time the movie was being cut, although all of them would be familiar names a few years later.
Coppola got the idea to make the film when a librarian wrote him that her seventh and eighth grade students wanted a film of that book. Seventh/eighth grade is prime S. E. Hinton time. I know that's when our class read it.
What is most questionable about the film (at either length) is Coppola's decision to seize on the Gone with the Wind references and inflate The Outsiders with old-Hollywood-epic visuals, complemented by that florid score by his dad. The novel's strength is its simplicity and directness, and the Coppolas' visual/auditory approach is at odds with that. (The film of Hinton's Tex a year earlier, also with Dillon, was more like it, and it remains the best film made from one of her books overall.) On the other hand, perhaps the strange aesthetic choices give The Outsiders enduring interest as a curio. It's one of the more interesting films from FFC's long post-Apocalypse decline.
by Anonymous | reply 11 | February 19, 2023 11:07 AM |
the scene where Dally yells at the kids playing cards or marbles or whatever is felt. I too find children annoying on that level
by Anonymous | reply 12 | February 19, 2023 11:21 AM |
The point is some kind of Greasers fanfiction, as far as I gathered. But it was pretty imaginative and emotional, for it.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | February 19, 2023 8:14 PM |
It was a really popular young adult novel before it was a movie. I read it when I was a kid in the 80s. S.E. Hinton, a woman, wrote it, if I recall correctly.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | February 19, 2023 8:16 PM |
All that male eye candy. For young gays at the time, this must have been heaven. You had hunks like Patrick Swayze, pretty boys like Rob Lowe, cute boy next doors like Tommy Howell and Macchio and dorky hot Emilio Estevez. Tammy was uglied up for this rile, by the time of All The Right Moves, he was a hottie.
by Anonymous | reply 15 | February 19, 2023 8:21 PM |
And of course sex-on-legs bad boy Matt Dillon. Who could forget?
by Anonymous | reply 16 | February 19, 2023 8:24 PM |
Who would star in the remake?
by Anonymous | reply 17 | February 19, 2023 10:24 PM |
Didn't they do some weird remastering/reformulation with the soundtrack, where they took out all the OG music and put period-typical pop songs in?
by Anonymous | reply 18 | February 20, 2023 12:34 AM |
ripley's believe it or not: males can love each other and care about each other and NOT have sexual attraction.
by Anonymous | reply 19 | February 20, 2023 12:38 AM |
I read this as a teen in high school. I remember being inspired to start writing then because SE Hinton was in high school when she wrote the novel.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | February 20, 2023 12:49 AM |
Emilio was such a hot twink.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 21 | February 20, 2023 12:50 AM |
uhhhhhh R19 you might wanna. might wanna steer clear of the a03 tag my guy
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 22 | February 20, 2023 12:54 AM |
Anyone watch that 90s continuation series they tried on Fox? It flopped obviously
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 23 | February 20, 2023 12:55 AM |
^I used to love the tv show.
by Anonymous | reply 24 | February 20, 2023 2:36 AM |
oh so R24 was the one person who watched it
by Anonymous | reply 25 | February 20, 2023 2:37 AM |
My favourite behind-the-scenes trivia about the og Outsiders movie is that on the shoot Ralph Macchio hated C. Thomas Howell. like couldn't stand his ass. which shows how good of an actor Ralph was at just 20.
they had a big age gap though their characters were meant to be the same age so maybe that was an issue? also Ralph was a pretty big star name back then while C. Thomas was not (and didn't care to be)
they get on fine now though
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 26 | February 20, 2023 3:21 PM |
The point is of NO RETURN, and YOU'VE reached it!
by Anonymous | reply 27 | February 20, 2023 4:23 PM |
Estevez was hunkier and more muscular in The Breakfast Club
by Anonymous | reply 28 | February 20, 2023 4:29 PM |
Without this movie, the phrase "Stay Gold, Datalounge" would not exist
by Anonymous | reply 29 | February 20, 2023 4:32 PM |
RDJ was up for the Macchio character but Coppola thought he was talented but too pretty, too quirky and too obviously self-sufficient. RDJ said not getting it was a major career disappointment but that Macchio was perfect for the role.
Charlie Sheen was considered for Tom Cruise's role but Cruise auditioned in character right down to food stuck in his teeth and got the part.
Kim Walker, Heather Chandler herself, got the role of Cherry for the TV series. Alas...
by Anonymous | reply 30 | February 20, 2023 4:42 PM |
[quote]Ralph was a pretty big star name back then while C. Thomas was not (and didn't care to be)
Macchio had been the new kid on Eight Is Enough when it reached the point of needing a new kid, but he wasn't exactly a star. Dillon was the most well-established teen idol in the cast in early '83, as Cruise's Risky Business came later in the year.
Anyway, they certainly struck, uh, "gold" with the casting. Not only did all of them continue to have success later in the decade (and some, beyond), they are even well matched to the way the characters are described in the book. Dillon is much better-looking than Dallas sounds on the page, but Diane Lane, Macchio, Estevez, Howell, Lowe, Cruise, and Swayze are just right physically. Swayze was playing younger by about 10 years, but it works. Darry is supposed to be getting old before his time, working so much and being the parental figure for his brothers.
Much of the acting is awkward, though. Coppola had directed many magnificent performances, but I wonder if he had trouble directing young, relatively inexperienced actors. He hadn't done a lot of this in his prior career. And Sofia's notorious performance in Godfather III loomed, only seven years away.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | February 20, 2023 4:53 PM |
R31 fair. I always forget that Howell was the kid in 'E.T.', so he clearly wasn't doing too badly. But he just doesn't have that marquee name sparkle about him.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | February 20, 2023 4:59 PM |
Macchio says that by the haircutting scene, he & C.T. were about ready to shoot stab each other with those big switchblades.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 33 | February 20, 2023 5:00 PM |
Diane Lane is lovely in this! Well, she’s always lovely. Saw this when I was coming of age ,as it were, and realized I wanted Cherry to be my best friend but wanted Soda Pop in my mouth.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | February 20, 2023 5:04 PM |
R32, he was a kid in E.T., but not “the” kid.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | February 20, 2023 5:08 PM |
I thought it was great. And the eye candy didn't hurt when I saw it in middle school as a closeted kid. I can remember the teacher running to the TV with a folder to cover the screen when Rob Lowe got out of the shower even though all you see is a little bit of naked thigh if I'm recalling correctly. It's a sweet, moving story and I always liked when Coppola would do something like this. Peggy Sue Got Married is another sweet film he made. I always felt these were better than Apocalypse Now which has always left me cold.
by Anonymous | reply 36 | February 20, 2023 5:09 PM |
Macchio was a grown adult, around 21 or so, despite looking 14. Macchio also had more experience as an actor. And C Thomas Howell was actually around 15 and this was his major role. At those ages there's a huge gap in maturity and life experience. It's like having a very young coworker at a job who annoys you with their arrogance and laziness.
by Anonymous | reply 37 | February 20, 2023 5:09 PM |
Yes, author S.E. Hinton is a woman. Maybe that's why they're reading "Gone with the Wind" and having these deep, sensitive conversations.
Diane Lane, with red hair, was absolutely beautiful.
C. Thomas Howell was probably my favorite of the actors.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 38 | February 20, 2023 7:32 PM |
It's funny how C. Thomas Howell had the worst career of the major actors in it.
His career was pretty much destroyed (as he himself admits) for going blackface with "Soul Man."
by Anonymous | reply 39 | February 20, 2023 7:44 PM |
[qoute] What was the purpose of that scene with naked Rob Lowe getting out of the shower?
SHUT UP, ANGELA!
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 40 | February 20, 2023 7:57 PM |
The one I didn’t “get” was ‘Rumblefish’.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | February 20, 2023 8:24 PM |
I always tear up when I hear Stevie Wonder’s Stay Gold as the credits roll. Time for a rewatch
by Anonymous | reply 43 | February 21, 2023 12:35 AM |
Shitty book. A bunch of hot "tough" boys who act exactly like girls.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | February 21, 2023 12:39 AM |
R44 tbf if you imagine the cast as tender but tuff young babydykes it all hangs together so much better.
Actually, why have we never had Lesbian-coded Greasers? I mean besides the Pink Ladies, but they don't really count.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | February 21, 2023 12:46 AM |
The book was wonderful. The movie is interesting for all the future stars in it.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | February 21, 2023 12:57 AM |
They didn't act like a real gang at all and they didn't seem like juvenile delinquents. Just cute, misunderstood "nonthreatening" boys from the wrong side of the tracks who hugged and cuddled with each other. I do notice many lesbians and non-binary adore this book and movie and like to cosplay as the Greasers.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | February 21, 2023 1:15 AM |
The TV series wasn't bad at all. It was entertaining and I liked they made more of an attempt to sound like they're actually from Oklahoma. From what I know, Hinton was involved with the TV show. One episode actually addressed integration of the public schools, showing that some of the Greasers like Sodapop would be racist (realistic for that time period) and Ponyboy's friendship with an upper-class boy who shared his interest in literature.
by Anonymous | reply 48 | February 21, 2023 1:22 AM |
[quote] Ponyboy's friendship with an upper-class boy who shared his interest in literature.
We all know what that's code for...
by Anonymous | reply 49 | February 21, 2023 1:27 AM |
Rob Lowe and Matt Dillon. Watched it over and over as a teen.
by Anonymous | reply 50 | February 21, 2023 1:38 AM |
The writer of the book had very strong opinions about the staunch heterosexuality of all her characters IIRC, and in later years became a huge fanfrau of the TV show Supernatural and weaseled her way onto the set constantly. Total weirdo.
by Anonymous | reply 51 | February 21, 2023 1:43 AM |
R51 as I understood it from a baffled outsider perspective: 90% of the staunch Supernatural fanbase were fanfic slash shippers Enbies who railroaded the writers into making a character gay and hinting at m/m content, then got angry when said writers backtracked and revealed they were baiting. It doesn't sound like proud het Frau Hinton would want any part of that.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | February 21, 2023 1:46 AM |
R45, do the Tin Lizzies in "The Warriors" count?
by Anonymous | reply 53 | February 21, 2023 2:36 AM |
When I think of genius casting directors, I think of this movie.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | February 21, 2023 2:41 AM |
Hinton's mistake was in engaging too much with the social-media loons and then getting defensive. When she was asked if Johnny and Dallas were supposed to be in love, or Johnny and Ponyboy were supposed to be in love (as an explanation for why Johnny kills the Soc), she was in the right to say that this wasn't in her mind at all when she was a teen in Oklahoma writing the book. God, for once, people had the author alive and accessible to ask these things. It wasn't Nick Carraway or Lawrence Seldon, where they had to argue about it with each other for years with no resolution. But then they didn't like the answer they got back, and they started badgering her on the grounds that their interpretation was equally valid. (I have a feeling they would not be receptive to an argument that someone's hetero interpretation of an explicitly gay story, with the author flatly declaring that it was a gay story, was equally valid.)
That one person who said she always wanted to believe there were gay relationships going on in The Outsiders because it would be "cute" was the worst kind of fetishizing twit, and almost surely straight.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | February 21, 2023 7:16 AM |
[quote] (I have a feeling they would not be receptive to an argument that someone's hetero interpretation of an explicitly gay story, with the author flatly declaring that it was a gay story, was equally valid.
This reminds me of the discourse wars that raged about 'Brokeback Mountain' after the film was released. How Proulx stuck to her guns when asked that neither Ennis nor Jack would ever consider themselves "gay" or "queer" in the traditional sense (not even Jack in his later promiscuous years), and that for Ennis especially Jack was an exception and he had little to no interest in other men or in gay sex/life making him a bisexual at the most. Proulx doesn't even think of it as a gay story or romance, simply a quiet small tragedy about inconvenient and doomed love. Shippers did *not* want to hear that shit.
by Anonymous | reply 56 | February 21, 2023 8:37 AM |
People get hung up on labels
by Anonymous | reply 57 | February 21, 2023 8:41 AM |
Makes me want to read Gone With the Wind but I’m too lazy. Anyone here read it?
by Anonymous | reply 58 | February 21, 2023 8:47 AM |
so many forget Dillon in Little Darlings 53:40
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 59 | February 21, 2023 8:50 AM |
This thread made me cue up the theatrical cut on HBO Max. I hadn't seen either version of The Outsiders in a long while.
I can see someone preferring Theatrical as tighter and more concise (91 minutes versus 113), but it's missing a lot. We start out with Ponyboy writing in his composition book that he stepped out of the darkened movie theater, and then we go to a completely different scene. Ponyboy has a conspicuous cut on his neck all through the drive-in sequence, and we have no idea how he got it. We might just conclude he's new to shaving.
The "Complete Novel" version actually shows him stepping out of that darkened movie theater and being jumped by Socs, one of whom holds a knife to his throat and superficially cuts him. After the other Greasers rescue him, Darry starts in on him about walking by himself and not using his head, which gives some context to Ponyboy's later outburst at the drive-in about Darry always scolding him. We haven't even met Darry at that point yet in Theatrical, so unless we've read the book, we can't have much of a point of view.
IMO, this is one time Coppola went back to one of his old films and did make it better. The replacement of a good deal of Carmine's score with period rock was also an improvement.
by Anonymous | reply 60 | February 21, 2023 8:53 AM |
He changed up the opening credits in the directors cut. I preferred the theatrical cut. I also preferred Carmine Coppola’s score.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | February 21, 2023 9:03 AM |
The movie did a good job of displaying relative midcentury American breadline living, at least. You definitely got the sense that Darry broke his back trying to keep their shabby tiny spartan place nice and his brothers semi-clean & safe.
The premise is basically a harem Y/N setup, though.
by Anonymous | reply 62 | February 21, 2023 10:16 PM |
Rob Lowe said in his autobiography that Coppola wanted them all to bond so he had them sharing hotel rooms/suites. They all wrestled and horsed around except for Tommy Cruise who was on the phone complaining to his manager he had to share a room.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | February 21, 2023 10:22 PM |
R11, I agree. The movie didn't match the vibe of the book. I thought it was me, a kid, not knowing any better but the movie seemed so off to me. Coppola should gone with a less is more approach but that's Coppola I guess.
by Anonymous | reply 64 | February 21, 2023 10:34 PM |
I see no reason to watch this thing when Bel Ami's Greatest Orgies is essentially the same movie with less wooden acting.
by Anonymous | reply 66 | February 21, 2023 10:57 PM |
^Ewwww. No uncut men for me tyvm
by Anonymous | reply 67 | February 21, 2023 11:03 PM |
You remember dates you watched a movie?
by Anonymous | reply 68 | February 21, 2023 11:09 PM |
^ he keeps a journal including men he’s hooked up with over the years
by Anonymous | reply 69 | February 21, 2023 11:25 PM |
Something I had forgotten: Sofia Coppola played the annoying little girl who approaches the car at the fast-food joint and keeps begging for 15 cents, until Dallas is sufficiently hostile to get her to go away (a process critics and audiences would repeat when she played her first major role in 1990). Coppola pictures were always a family affair, weren't they?
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 70 | February 23, 2023 4:11 AM |
[quote]Proulx doesn't even think of it as a gay story or romance, simply a quiet small tragedy about inconvenient and doomed love. Shippers did *not* want to hear that shit.
It's reductive to say it was only "shippers" who took issue with Proulx's haughty, brittle, and dismissive manner at every turn with respect to "Brokeback." The fact remains that she was writing the experience of men who have sex with men and she is not one. Her high-handed attitude towards gay male criticism of yet another weepy Bury Your Gays story--asserting, just to cite one example, that gay men were unhappy because they wanted the story to be more "pornish"--was embarrassing and borderline homophobic.
by Anonymous | reply 71 | February 23, 2023 6:23 AM |
I didn’t know that was Sofia Coppola.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | February 23, 2023 11:48 AM |
I love Matt Dillon in those tighty whities. And those luscious lips
by Anonymous | reply 73 | February 23, 2023 11:49 AM |
Underrated film. Great casting. Love the cinematography. Stay gold.
by Anonymous | reply 74 | February 23, 2023 12:37 PM |
[quote] I love Matt Dillon in those tighty whities.
I’m still hoping to come back as them in the next life!
by Anonymous | reply 75 | February 23, 2023 1:56 PM |
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